James E. Gierach

.@kasie: Stunning moments following a solemn Veterans Day ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery. This morning, we saw President Donald Trump do what we expect of all of our commanders-in-chief, as he placed a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. But then, a short while later, there came this moment, as Trump’s Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, returned to the tomb to pose for photos with his wife and senior advisers. Sentinel: An atmosphere of silence and respect at all times. Kasie Hunt: So just to be clear on what we just saw, and possibly more importantly what you just heard, was the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, and the people that he was with. Laughter emanating from that group, resulting in a reprimand from the U.S. Army sentinel who was standing guard at one of our nation’s most sacred sites. And again, it’s because the group that he was with was talking, taking photos, and laughing on Veterans Day. In a statement to CNN, the chief Pentagon spokesman said this. Quote: “The Secretary and the entire department have always honored, and will always honor, the sacrifices our military men and women have made to keep America safe. While commemorating this solemn day, a soldier correctly and respectfully reminded everyone to maintain decorum.” End quote. This all happened just after President Trump addressed the crowd, and among those remarks invoked the colossal arch that he wants to build. The arch that is being opposed by veterans groups, who worry that it will provide tourists with an aerial view of military burials, and who point out that it will literally cast a shadow on the final resting place of America’s fallen heroes. Donald Trump: Soon we’re going to dedicate a magnificent triumphal arch to our veterans, and that’s in honor of our great veterans and our great militaries. They’ve been waiting for it for 200 years. Kasie Hunt: All right, let’s get off the sidelines and head into the arena. My panel is going to be here, but we’re going to start with CNN senior national security reporter Zachary Cohen. Zach, a stunning moment today at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, which is guarded day and night, rain or shine, has been since 1948. What more can you tell us about what we saw today? Zachary Cohen: Yeah, Kasie. It is a remarkable moment caught on camera, given the fact that the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is one of the most sacred war memorials in the United States. It is guarded by soldiers assigned to what’s known as the Old Guard, and they patrol, as you said, 24/7, rain or shine, and have since 1948. And this is a soldier which Sean Parnell, the chief Pentagon spokesperson, correctly noted was doing his job, and correcting Pete Hegseth and members of his senior staff for laughing and talking and taking photos in front of this war memorial. It’s something that I think critics may wonder. Why a soldier who is in uniform, patrolling this memorial, why he is correcting the Secretary of Defense, or having to correct the Secretary of Defense, in a moment like this. And it frankly doesn’t matter to that soldier who is assigned to patrol that tomb, whether it’s tourists who are visiting the site for the first time and maybe don’t understand the decorum that’s expected and required, or if it is the head of the Pentagon. And this isn’t happening in a vacuum, though, for Hegseth. He’s obviously come under immense scrutiny and pressure just in the last month alone, facing that failed impeachment effort over his role in the Iran war. He has been very defiant, though, in the face of criticism, including that impeachment push, and really highlighting his ties to President Donald Trump, who has stood by him even as members of his own party have been calling for him to be fired. So this is just another very public misstep, though, by Hegseth, and it’s one that comes on Veterans Day, and it comes at a time when there are questions about his level of respect for the troops in uniform. I think, as Sean Parnell said, Hegseth does respect the troops, and the entire department does. But there are obviously hundreds of thousands of service members still deployed overseas in the Middle East, waiting to see what will happen next with the Iran war, and being told and asked to do very hard tasks on a daily basis, even if full combat operations haven’t resumed. Kasie Hunt: Congressman, let me start with you, because of course you served as a Republican. I think most of our viewers who know you well know the terms of your exit, and how you have felt historically about the Trump administration. But I really want to stick with this particular moment, with Pete Hegseth, who is the Defense Secretary. He is the leader of the Pentagon. And can you just help us understand the significance of this site? I visited it many times as a D.C. resident, here in D.C. for a long, long time. The atmosphere that is usually present when you find yourself in this place, and what it means that they conducted themselves the way they did. Adam Kinzinger: Yeah. I mean, it’s a couple things. So first off, as a nation, we should be proud that this exists, that this memorial exists, this tomb exists, and that frankly this soldier was courageous enough to call out the Secretary of Defense. Even if the president was doing this, the soldier would still do that. It’s one of the few places that we hold really to honor in this country. And I think what I don’t understand — first off, I’m glad the Pentagon’s response was to say that the soldier was doing his job. I kind of worried that they would try to save face in that way. But it is the most somber environment you’ve been in. I cannot imagine even thinking about, first off, taking a picture, posing for a picture. I don’t know what the rules are on that. I guess it’s legal. But then laughing and giggling and shaking hands. To me, there is just something about the air there when you go there that feels like a place you can’t do that. Even if you didn’t know the rules, it’s just silent and somber. And you would think the Secretary of Defense would have gotten a nice briefing prior to it, a reminder that you have to be somber and show yourself to be there in a mode of respect. So I think it’s very embarrassing for him. And at the same time, I’m very proud of the fact that our country held those rules, even in the face of putting somebody like the Secretary of Defense there. It really is something to be proud of. Kasie Hunt: Yeah. I’m glad that you mentioned the statement that they put out, because it certainly was a question I had. Was this man aware of who it was? This soldier, who was again doing his job, aware of who this person was? And of course we’ve often seen this administration, when they find themselves in situations where anyone is suggesting that they’ve done something untoward, or with impropriety, they proceed to then attack whoever it is that’s making the accusation or the statement. Is this gonna hold, I guess is my question? Because in some ways, to your point, it seemed gratifying, but considering the pattern of behavior previously, perhaps surprising. Adam Kinzinger: Yeah. I mean, I worry about that. I worry that when Hegseth himself sees the reaction — I’m sure he’s probably been made aware of it now — when he starts doing his own bit, really nicely produced videos he puts out, that he’s gonna try to defend himself or say it was an overreaction. I worry about that. I also would be — I don’t give Pete much credit for anything. I would give him credit if he actually just gives this soldier, in essence, a pat on the back for doing his job, despite how difficult that is. Because again, I couldn’t imagine being a guard of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. By the way, these people take an oath to not drink the rest of their lives. They take this job extremely seriously. I think they are not even allowed to use foul language at any point. And so this guy deserves an accommodation for doing that, for doing his job. I hope that sticks. I’ll give Pete credit if he does that. I still think this is a completely inappropriate miss on his end, on the behavior of the team. Kasie Hunt: Hold on one second. Can you go back to that, when you talk about this unit? What else can you tell us about that? What do they promise to do, and why, and what does that mean in the context of the broader military? Adam Kinzinger: Yes. So to be selected — I don’t know all the details, but I know this part. To be selected, you basically take an oath to never use foul language, even off duty. You basically are making a commitment to not drink alcohol anymore. And the point of this is, you take this duty, this in essence 24-hour duty, so seriously and somberly that you are willing to make that kind of a sacrifice in your own life. You mentioned the fact that it’s 24 hours, the fact that there are hurricanes that have hit Washington, D.C., and these soldiers stand guard. It really is an amazing kind of testament to how much we honor people that have made the sacrifice for this country, whether they’re living or whether they passed in service. And again, it’s one of the very few places we hold really sacred in this country. Kasie Hunt: Barbara, to you first, as someone who spent a lot of time reporting from Arlington National Cemetery over the years. I am curious if you could walk our viewers through what is normal behavior at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Because there are moments where the guard will yell if people are talking when they shouldn’t, certainly if they’re laughing. Just tell us what is normal. Barbara Starr: Well, sure. This Army sentinel reacted to this situation absolutely appropriately, given the training and the policies they follow. For those who may not be aware, a team of Army soldiers patrols the Tomb of the Unknown, which is at the base of those steps, every single minute, every day of the year. Bad weather, snow, rain, ice, daylight, at midnight. They patrol to show the military’s honor and respect at Arlington, one of the most somber places in the country, the final resting place for tens of thousands of those who have served the country. What you see here is Hegseth in a group of his advisers on the steps above the Tomb of the Unknown, and the sentinel hears laughter. They’re apparently taking photos of themselves with the tomb in the background. The sentinel comes forward and he basically says, silence. You must behave with respect and silence at this place. This is something they do tell tourists when they are there. Many tourists are not aware of the rules in Arlington, and the sentinels will tell them to be quiet and show respect. The question is, of course, would the Secretary of Defense not be aware that silence and respect is the way to go at Arlington National Cemetery, every day, but especially on Veterans Day? Brianna Keilar: Colonel, obviously the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, one of the most sacred war memorials in the U.S., and it is the sentinel’s job to maintain decorum there. Help us understand the significance of seeing someone laughing at a place that is so solemn and important. Col. Leighton: Yeah, it’s certainly inappropriate, to say the least. And I wonder who thought it was a good idea to take pictures in that particular location at that particular time. This is one of the most important, one of the most solemn places in the U.S. military. And the very fact that someone saw this as a moment for levity is disturbing, because this is the tomb of a soldier who is, as they say on the epitaph, known but to God. And that is where you have to bring in the most solemn behavior, the most solemn decorum. And as Barbara said, the sentinel was absolutely right in saying that that type of behavior is not acceptable. And it is certainly something where we have to look at our military and civilian leaders as being examples of that behavior. And any deviation from that example is, to say the least, problematic. Brianna Keilar: And Barbara, it also comes amid this battle over the triumphal arch there, outside of Arlington National Cemetery, which, when built, would disrupt those sight lines between the Lincoln Memorial and the cemetery. And it has created these questions about whether this administration understands that this cemetery is sacred, that the service of those soldiers is sacrosanct. So this isn’t happening in isolation. There’s this bigger backdrop we’re seeing. Barbara Starr: Well, I think there is. And it’s a curious thing. These people, including Hegseth, had their backs essentially to the Tomb of the Unknown, so they could take a picture looking down the hills of Arlington, out to the Potomac River, out to the Lincoln Memorial. And had the arch been built, it would have also been in the background of the shot they were taking. It was that exact shot. This is a place that is just at the center of U.S. military history. This very place where you look down over the rolling hills of Arlington, you see the thousands of white tombstones marking that final resting place of troops that have served throughout the nation’s history. You see the history of World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the wars in the Middle East. You see that unfold before your eyes as you look down that green hill towards the Lincoln Memorial. So a whole cemetery is somber and sacrosanct, but this one place where they chose to take photos is really at the center of what folks are talking about right now, about the future of Arlington Cemetery and what it will look like if that arch is built. Brianna Keilar: Maybe a good moment here to say it appears also members of the Kennedy family have now joined a legal action to try and stop the arch. Of course, you are also looking down at the final resting place of President John F. Kennedy, and the late Senator Edward Kennedy, and Robert Kennedy. So this is really a centerpiece of American history. If Hegseth realized it — and I’m sure he knew what he was doing, how could he not — perhaps he didn’t just take it quite as seriously as so many people do.