Tha Local Beat

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You made a few points I need to look at more closely, but overall I appreciate the conversation and how it remained civil. Often these conversations do not. We can talk about this at a later point for sure, maybe not in a limited character format.

Mitigation factors is irresponsible to those with immune systems that are compromised. I am all for a solution that balances the needs of the vulnerable without vaccine discrimination, but I have never heard one proposed.

This is a good point. I still think that based on everything I have read, vaccines are a net positive. Currently, schools ban kids without vaccinations, home school is an option. Work from home should be an option. There are no easy answers, but no vaccination without (next)

It is not necessarily totalitarianism. It is central government action. Government is meant to do the best for the people. It can only be totalitarian if it affects more than one realm and action of life. Government is intended to do the best for people even if people disagree.

It is unlikely that every business or school would independently require this. It would have to be federally required... That is a reasonable outcome to expect. Still, choosing not to be vaccinated impacts people who cannot vaccinate. Therefore a choice erases another's choice.

I think people should be allowed to opt-out. I get your concern about putting something in your body you do not know everything about. However, if workplaces and schools have people that want to require vaccinations for entry, then I guess that is a right too. It is a hard topic.

To a degree, I can agree with you that it is unethical. It is unethical to tell people they are safe when they are not 100% safe... Which seems to be the case with this virus and the vaccine, but it is not unethical if someone willingly agrees to get the vaccine.

They are not knowingly infecting someone with the whole virus. They are infecting someone with a weakened virus. In order to prove your double blind they have to use the healthy virus. Using a healthy virus violates medical ethics.

Once again, this is a speculative claim. Also, a double-blind could never be performed because it fails medical ethics. You would have to knowingly infect someone with polio to prove this. Therefore, the evidence I gave you is the best you'll get. Your metric is unfalsifiable now

Okay, I don't know where you got that required metric, but if you want to be safe, then that makes sense. That being said, if that is the standard then this entire conversation is speculative because to my knowledge double blinds have not been done on the medicine discussed.

It isn't hypothetical. It is proven fact. Why does everyone not have polio? We never developed a cure for polio. We only have a vaccine. In areas in India where people refuse vaccination, polio came back. Remy, I like you, and I only commented because of that.

Historically, data does. Data does not support or deny it in this case. Data has not been taken to the extent needed for conclusive evidence. It will be months before evidence is there. Bill Gates is a correlation equals causation argument. There is no proof either way.

Yeah, and that has to do with what strand they chose. People do not always get the strand of the flu they are vaccinated for. Vaccines like anything have side effects, but getting vaccinated is not entirely about you. It's about enough people getting it for herd immunity.

I saw that reply, but if the data is inconclusive then the point stands and everything I've read more or less agrees there is not enough data to say anything. The real issue with vaccines is that they usually take 10 years at least to develop. 12-18 months is a feat.

I haven't read this specific article, and I can't find it when I google the exact text above, but all that is saying is there is no evidence. No data proves or disproves this yet. That is all it says. Also, vaccines don't prevent 2nd infections. They help with severity.

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