Mos Def Says “The Nuclear Club Should Be Disbanded” Christopher Hitchens Fires Back Mos Def: The nuclear club should be disbanded. America has proven that no country is truly responsible with these weapons. In less than 100 years, we've had Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Chernobyl. Oppenheimer was right ,we should never have built this shit in the first place. You can't tell Iran, “You can't have nuclear weapons, but we can.” What kind of example is that? Christopher Hitchens: The Iranians deny they're trying to build nuclear weapons. They've sworn they don't want the programme for weaponry. But you're assuming they're telling the truth. They're tearing up treaties, undermining non-proliferation and making a mockery of the UN and the International Atomic Energy Agency. Mos Def: But if the US can have them, what gives us the right to dictate these terms to other nations when they claim it's about their right to self-determination? Salman Rushdie: Iranian proxy groups in the Middle East are actually using a nuclear mushroom cloud as their symbol. Christopher Hitchens: I was at a Hezbollah rally in Beirut. He's right. The mushroom cloud is now their party symbol. Mos Def: So what's the response supposed to be? “Hands off, or we're going to blow you up?” An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. We need a generation that lives without war for the sake of our children and the environment. War itself is an environmental issue. We're digging uranium and steel out of the ground to build weapons to kill people. Christopher Hitchens: What do you think the mullahs want nuclear weapons for, then? Mos Def: I'm not concerned with religious extremists. There are religious nuts everywhere. Everybody has something they're completely devoted to. Some people's religion is their empire. Human beings are hardwired to devote themselves to something. Your guiding principle doesn't have to be traditional religion. Christopher Hitchens: Where it doesn't belong. Mos Def: You might even be an evangelical atheist. That's fine. What I'm saying is that war itself is a threat. Christopher Hitchens: No, we agree. War is bad. But theocracy is a threat by itself. Theocracy plus nuclear weaponry is a terrifying threat. Before I came on, I heard you say you didn't care about Osama bin Laden and would rather talk about New Orleans. Wait until someone who thinks like bin Laden gets hold of an apocalyptic weapon. You'll stop sounding so funny.