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"When spirits begin to speak with man...things are fabricated by them, and they lie." ~Swedenborg, 1748 👽 Contact or Con Job? The Dark Side of Communicating with Non-Human Intelligence 👽 "We can't see them; they can see us, so they have the upper hand." ~Colm (This is one of my fav discussions from the 10th episode of the Bigelow podcast.) Highlights... "You're never sure of who you're communicating with. There are levels of deception that we know about." ~Colm "You think you're talking to an entity, a soul that's departed, and it's something else entirely" ~Knapp ~~~ Dr. Colm Kelleher: (Question from viewer, Brandt): "'Do you think we need authentication protocols for communication with non-human intelligence, i.e. some way of establishing who or what we are actually communicating with?' "And, you know, that again, we've just actually discussed this whole sort of messy aspect of...we weren't quite sure if there were sort of spirits on the Skinwalker Ranch or if there were ETs or aliens." (I'll clip that discussion next because it was also really good and showed the differences between how Mr. B. sees things vs. how Kelleher and Knapp see them. More times than not, I align with K and K.) Kelleher: "So, my short answer to that question would be, very, very much so. We do need to be able to, ultimately, understand who we are communicating with. And I think one of the, I guess, issues with attempting to communicate out there is that you're never sure of who you're communicating with. So, we've got to establish protocols, and I think Brandt from Massachusetts has hit the nail on the head. "If there are authentication protocols, we should definitely be incorporating them. Because, otherwise, you know, there are levels of deception that we know about in terms of communicating, sometimes with...for example, the abductees that we've talked about are reporting that there will be a craft flying by at a certain time, and that craft doesn't show up. They're reporting that some sort of cataclysm will occur on such and such a date. It never happens." (If these folks were actually receiving information from non-humans entities, Kelleher presents perfect examples of the deception that's been reported over the years. And then the experiencers are discredited because the prediction doesn't come true. I was part of a UFO lecture group in Florida where one of the participants claimed to have telepathically received a message that said "they" were going to show up that night at a specific time. So we all went in the backyard at that time and looked up. My wife (at the time) and I saw nothing. But there were a few people who were very excited and claimed to be seeing things in the sky. Several people took photos but I don't recall anything showing up in the pics. Was the phenomenon making some of us see it, and not others? Or, were these folks who claimed to see something just making it up because they wanted to feel special? I think it was the latter, and I have reasons for feeling that way. This group, with the leader, felt very cult-like and I'll link to who that "leader" was in the replies.) Kelleher: "So, there are sort of aspects of what is being communicated to humans that we really need to be careful of. So, I think a lot of people are getting more and more concerned with the need for authentication of who we're communicating with, because we're kind of in a position where we can't see them; they can see us, so they have the upper hand." @g_knapp: "This is really true in the work you guys have done in the consciousness area, where you're trying to establish lines of communication with something on the other side. You really have no idea who you're talking to, do you?" Bigelow (@BigelowPodcast): "Correct. We are currently involved in that." Knapp: "I mean, and you've written about in the past, and some of the writers in your essay contest who would speculate on it, you know, using mediums or other means to try to communicate with the other side. You gotta be tricky (careful) because they can play games over there. You think you're talking to an entity, a soul that's departed, and it's something else entirely." (It's something I've tweeted about a lot. I believe some mediums can acquire information that they have no way of knowing via their five senses. So, anomalous acquisition of information. Are they communicating with the dead? Or, is there something else going on? I don't know and I have no idea on how to prove where the information is coming from.) Bigelow: "Well there's some famous cases where fraud lasted for, I think, in one case, 17 years. And a fellow thought he was communicating with somebody that he was in love with. And after 17 years, learned it was fraud. Not that the spirit didn't exist, but she wasn't who he thought she was." Kelleher: "Yeah." Bigelow: "He was a wreck. He was really broken up." (I was so happy to hear Mr. B. bring up this case because it's about one of my favorite books, "Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts," by the late Joe Fisher. I've tweeted about that book a lot and it was recommended to me by @ddeanjohnson. Was the medium/channeler really communicating with a spirit, as Mr. B. believes, or was it just an aspect of the channeler's subconscious? Or, something else? Again, impossible to know.) Knapp: "You know, there's trickery here on Earth, mediums who aren't what they say they are, who are not exactly trustworthy. But there's trickery on the other side, too, where you have entities that take over, you know, pretend to be somebody else. They pass along information that really can mess somebody up." Bigelow: "Yeah." Kelleher: "Yeah, I think we're in a very vulnerable position as we're starting all these communicating protocols because exactly that. I think the guy you're talking about was Joe Fisher, that journalist in Canada who fell in love with this Greek woman on the other side. And, as you say, it just went downhill because of deception. I mean, this guy wrote a book about it called 'Hungry Ghosts.' And my God, that's a...talk about an object lesson in the need for authentication. Holy smokes! Because that guy eventually died of unknown causes." (Buy the book, which I'll link to in the replies. Just a great read. And the cause of his death is known. At 53, in 2001, he fell off a cliff and died. It was ruled a suicide, but some folks have speculated he was murdered by "spirits" or something anomalous. As far as as I know, there's no evidence for anything but suicide. If he was influenced by something else, or pushed, we'll never know.)